Meritocratic Isles

The Akropolis of Kekrops => Foreign Sanctuary => : Kadoshim August 26, 2008, 10:58:17 AM



: Relations With Israel
: Kadoshim August 26, 2008, 10:58:17 AM
Minutes ago a colony of Kadoshim, called Kodashim, was sent to the region of Israel. I agreed with the WA Delegate of Israel, Yew-topia, to swap puppet nations in each others regions in order to give an opportunity to set up further relations.
Before Yew-topia sends his colony to the Isles, I would like to hear the opinions of the nations of the Politeia on the matter.


: Re: Relations With Israel
: King Chester August 26, 2008, 05:57:20 PM
Sadly, Inter-Regional relations are not a strong area for US to discuss.


: Re: Relations With Israel
: Kadoshim August 27, 2008, 06:31:04 AM
Your Majesty, everyone has a set of skills that allows them to play a certain role in our government.
Is anyone comfortable with being an ambassador?


: Re: Relations With Israel
: Shieldelf August 27, 2008, 05:02:28 PM
I can be an ambassador, I am completly fine with doing that.


: Re: Relations With Israel
: Kadoshim August 28, 2008, 07:17:58 AM
The representative from Israel has arrived in the Meritocratic Isles. If we want this to be a formal alliance, we will need to make a treaty. Before Shieldelf makes a first draft it is essential that we determine what elements in the treaty would be in our best interest.My ideas are as follows:

Economic partnership-set up efficient shipping route from the Meritocratic Isles to Israel

Defense if under attack- Militaries obligated to defend one anothers' region, does not include offensive action


: Re: Relations With Israel
: King Chester August 28, 2008, 12:50:45 PM
Good faith promises of economic prosperity and of defensive aid are the two menhirs on which rests the lentel stone of friendship.


: Re: Relations With Israel
: Shieldelf August 28, 2008, 02:48:59 PM
Thank you Kadoshim for allowing me to be ambassador to Israel. I will work on the draft as soon as I recieve all the suggested ideas for our treaty. Right now we have:

1. Economic Partnership

2. Defense Treaty

Anything else anyone wants?


: Re: Relations With Israel
: Huttok August 28, 2008, 07:05:13 PM
If i could see your ideas on a defense treaty i would appreciate that, i don't want any holes for them to use against us.


: Re: Relations With Israel
: Kadoshim August 29, 2008, 06:01:27 AM
I was thinking along the lines of:
1. Meritocratic Isles shall not take offensive military action against Israel, nor shall Israel take offensive military action against Meritocratic Isles.
2. Israel shall not encourage other parties to be hostile towards Meritocratic Isles, nor shall Meritocratic Isles encourage other parties to be hostile towards Israel.
3. Meritocratic Isles shall inform Israel of plots of others to harm it if known to the Meritocratic Isles, and Israel shall inform Meritocratic Isles of plots of others to harm it if known to Israel.
4. Israel shall send WA Nations as defensive aid to Meritocratic Isles if it is invaded, and Meritocratic Isles shall send WA Nations as defensive aid to Israel if it is invaded.


: Re: Relations With Israel
: Shieldelf August 29, 2008, 02:43:45 PM
I like your idea Kadoshim. It seems like a bunch of great ideas.


: Re: Relations With Israel
: Huttok August 29, 2008, 05:00:32 PM
What will the agreement be when Israel takes defensive measures against us if we have to take offensive measures against one of their other allies. Perhaps the names of Israel's allies may come in handy before we fully integrate them into the Isles. This way we can do a quick background check and see if any are potential threats. If they are not, we now also have a list of potentially decent allies.


: Re: Relations With Israel
: Kadoshim August 29, 2008, 07:18:55 PM
Excellent point, Huttok. I was wondering about how this treaty would deal with other alliances, but could not think of a way to do so without all other alliances having to sign it as well.
Now I realize that this can be solved by simply adding to the contract:
5. Meritocratic Isles shall disclose the names of its alliance regions to Israel, and Israel shall disclose the names of any of its alliance regions to Israel.


: Re: Relations With Israel
: Shieldelf August 29, 2008, 07:27:06 PM
So I have these 5 points at the moment:
1. Meritocratic Isles shall not take offensive military action against Israel, nor shall Israel take offensive military action against Meritocratic Isles.
2. Israel shall not encourage other parties to be hostile towards Meritocratic Isles, nor shall Meritocratic Isles encourage other parties to be hostile towards Israel.
3. Meritocratic Isles shall inform Israel of plots of others to harm it if known to the Meritocratic Isles, and Israel shall inform Meritocratic Isles of plots of others to harm it if known to Israel.
4. Israel shall send WA Nations as defensive aid to Meritocratic Isles if it is invaded, and Meritocratic Isles shall send WA Nations as defensive aid to Israel if it is invaded.
5. Meritocratic Isles shall disclose the names of its alliance regions to Israel, and Israel shall disclose the names of any of its alliance regions to Israel.


If that is all, I think I should present it to Israel.
Does this need to be approved by the Apella?


: Re: Relations With Israel
: Kadoshim August 29, 2008, 07:36:12 PM
Hold up Shieldelf, we still need to draft the economic partnership portion of the treaty.
As for actually passing it, we will need to show it to a representative of Israel first, and possibly hear some negotiations.
Once the Israel representative can agree on the treaty we can then present it to the Apella. If the Apella approves of it it can head to the Gerousia, be approved, and then be passed into law.
Sounds simple enough.


: Re: Relations With Israel
: Shieldelf August 29, 2008, 08:03:49 PM
Ok, sounds all find and dandy to me.


: Re: Relations With Israel
: Huttok August 29, 2008, 11:46:17 PM
Thank you Kadoshim, i am glad as acting Military adviser i could be off assistance.


: Re: Relations With Israel
: King Chester August 30, 2008, 06:46:51 AM
WE have been listening intently and believe this matter is being handled magnificently.


: Re: Relations With Israel
: Kadoshim August 30, 2008, 07:04:48 AM
As for the economic partnership, I am a hesitant in demanding free trade between every nation in both regions. Both Meritocratic Isles and Israel have nations whose economies are developing, and could be seriously harmed by such a massive wave of competition.

Therefore, in order to make the agreement fair to all nations, I propose we make an agreement on securing a shipping route where goods from both regions can be cheaply and safely transported from one region to the other. Then it is still up to individual nations if they want to open up free trade to far away nations or keep their developing economies sheltered.


: Re: Relations With Israel
: Shieldelf August 30, 2008, 05:58:30 PM
I added this:

6. There shall be an open shipping route in which goods from both regions can be cheaply and safely transported from one region to the other. It is up to individual nations to decide if they wish to use this trade route.

If there are no more ideas I will ready the whole treaty.


: Re: Relations With Israel
: Kadoshim August 30, 2008, 06:22:40 PM
It looks quite thorough to me. Touch this up and we could easily begin the alliance by some time next week.


: Re: Relations With Israel
: Shieldelf August 31, 2008, 09:17:35 AM
Non-finalized draft has this:

1. Meritocratic Isles shall not take offensive military action against Israel, nor shall Israel take offensive military action against Meritocratic Isles.
2. Israel shall not encourage other parties to be hostile towards Meritocratic Isles, nor shall Meritocratic Isles encourage other parties to be hostile towards Israel.
3. Meritocratic Isles shall inform Israel of plots of others to harm it if known to the Meritocratic Isles, and Israel shall inform Meritocratic Isles of plots of others to harm it if known to Israel.
4. Israel shall send WA Nations as defensive aid to Meritocratic Isles if it is invaded, and Meritocratic Isles shall send WA Nations as defensive aid to Israel if it is invaded.
5. Meritocratic Isles shall disclose the names of its alliance regions to Israel, and Israel shall disclose the names of any of its alliance regions to Israel.
6. There shall be an open shipping route in which goods from both regions can be cheaply and safely transported from one region to the other. It is up to individual nations to decide if they wish to use this trade route.

I will try to make it sound more offical, these are just the points that will be on it.


: Re: Relations With Israel
: Huttok September 01, 2008, 11:36:31 AM
In relation to this trade route who will police this, I can task a few patrols if Israel is willing to also cooperate and send out regular patrols we can build up a rapport that way military or even police working together. Just an idea.


: Re: Relations With Israel
: Shieldelf September 01, 2008, 12:36:50 PM
6. There shall be an open shipping route in which goods from both regions can be cheaply and safely transported from one region to the other. This route is to be patrolled by a joint task force of Israeli and Meritocratian warships. It is up to individual nations to decide if they wish to use this trade route.

I added the part about who guards the trade route.


: Re: Relations With Israel
: Huttok September 01, 2008, 01:02:34 PM
Looks fine to me I will begin rostering a patrol unit within the next few hours, can you also ask the Israelis if we are ok to patrol into their regional waters along the trade route or if this is off limits? Of, course we should also be inclined to think if we should allow them into our regional waters, over to you on that one Kadoshim. I am here to advise you if need be.


: Re: Relations With Israel
: Shieldelf September 01, 2008, 01:46:05 PM
I can mention that, but it won't be added to the treaty unless they say "yes".


: Re: Relations With Israel
: Kadoshim September 01, 2008, 02:10:08 PM
The military related portions of the treaty should ensure that Israel will be no threat in our regional waters. As for communicating with Israel, I would contact Yew-topia. This leader can represent his region in possibly altering and finally agreeing upon the treaty.


: Re: Relations With Israel
: Shieldelf September 01, 2008, 07:28:31 PM
Alright, so I will add that to the treaty.

7. Meritocratian warships are to be allowed in Israeli regional waters, and Israeli warships are to be allowed in Meritocratian regional waters.


: Re: Relations With Israel
: Shieldelf September 02, 2008, 04:40:25 PM
I PM'ed Yew-Topia this to see what he wanted changed:
1. Meritocratic Isles shall not take offensive military action against Israel, nor shall Israel take offensive military action against Meritocratic Isles.
2. Israel shall not encourage other parties to be hostile towards Meritocratic Isles, nor shall Meritocratic Isles encourage other parties to be hostile towards Israel.
3. Meritocratic Isles shall inform Israel of plots of others to harm it if known to the Meritocratic Isles, and Israel shall inform Meritocratic Isles of plots of others to harm it if known to Israel.
4. Israel shall send WA Nations as defensive aid to Meritocratic Isles if it is invaded, and Meritocratic Isles shall send WA Nations as defensive aid to Israel if it is invaded.
5. Meritocratic Isles shall disclose the names of its alliance regions to Israel, and Israel shall disclose the names of any of its alliance regions to Israel.
6. There shall be an open shipping route in which goods from both regions can be cheaply and safely transported from one region to the other. This route is to be patrolled by a joint task force of Israeli and Meritocratian warships. It is up to individual nations to decide if they wish to use this trade route.
7. Meritocratian warships are to be allowed in Israeli regional waters, and Israeli warships are to be allowed in Meritocratian regional waters.


: Re: Relations With Israel
: Huttok September 02, 2008, 10:50:47 PM
Im not 100% happy with warships being allowed free run in our waters, we need some kind of restraint on that. If they are they must give us prior warning and their intentions and also have an escort at all times be that on board their ships or one of our ships being tasked alongside them.


: Re: Relations With Israel
: Shieldelf September 03, 2008, 02:32:49 PM
I'll see what they say. So far I see to be being ignored by Israel.


: Re: Relations With Israel
: Shieldelf September 10, 2008, 02:00:03 PM
I still have not recieved any replies. Looks like this isn't working out.


: Re: Relations With Israel
: Kadoshim September 10, 2008, 02:12:19 PM
There is no use in focusing all of our foreign relations on one, apparently inactive region. We must branch out to other regions anyways, and if Israel does finally reply we can put focus back onto them.
The good news is that at least we have a solid basis for a treaty with any other regional alliances we want to persue.


: Re: Relations With Israel
: Shieldelf September 10, 2008, 02:18:24 PM
Indeed we do. All that I have to do is change the names of the regions.


: Re: Relations With Israel
: Shieldelf September 13, 2008, 10:27:10 AM
Ok, I got a reply:

Hello, Ambassador Shieldelf.
Welcome to Israel, and thank you very much for your patience.
I spoke to the founder of our region of Israel regarding the treaty between our nations. We would like to express the following:
We think that only the first 3 sections should appear in the official treaty. Section 4 should be phrased as "4. Israel shall positively consider to send WA Nations as defensive aid to Meritocratic Isles if it is invaded, and Meritocratic Isles shall positively consider to send WA Nations as defensive aid to Israel if it is invaded.".
We object to section 5-7.
Thank you very much and we are looking forward to a positive, long and prosperous relationship between our regions.
Sincerely,
Yew-topia

The treaty draft looked like this:
1. Meritocratic Isles shall not take offensive military action against Israel, nor shall Israel take offensive military action against Meritocratic Isles.
2. Israel shall not encourage other parties to be hostile towards Meritocratic Isles, nor shall Meritocratic Isles encourage other parties to be hostile towards Israel.
3. Meritocratic Isles shall inform Israel of plots of others to harm it if known to the Meritocratic Isles, and Israel shall inform Meritocratic Isles of plots of others to harm it if known to Israel.
4. Israel shall send WA Nations as defensive aid to Meritocratic Isles if it is invaded, and Meritocratic Isles shall send WA Nations as defensive aid to Israel if it is invaded.
5. Meritocratic Isles shall disclose the names of its alliance regions to Israel, and Israel shall disclose the names of any of its alliance regions to Israel.
6. There shall be an open shipping route in which goods from both regions can be cheaply and safely transported from one region to the other. This route is to be patrolled by a joint task force of Israeli and Meritocratian warships. It is up to individual nations to decide if they wish to use this trade route.
7. Meritocratian warships are to be allowed in Israeli regional waters, and Israeli warships are to be allowed in Meritocratian regional waters.

They want it like this:
1. Meritocratic Isles shall not take offensive military action against Israel, nor shall Israel take offensive military action against Meritocratic Isles.
2. Israel shall not encourage other parties to be hostile towards Meritocratic Isles, nor shall Meritocratic Isles encourage other parties to be hostile towards Israel.
3. Meritocratic Isles shall inform Israel of plots of others to harm it if known to the Meritocratic Isles, and Israel shall inform Meritocratic Isles of plots of others to harm it if known to Israel.
4. Israel shall positively consider to send WA Nations as defensive aid to Meritocratic Isles if it is invaded, and Meritocratic Isles shall positively consider to send WA Nations as defensive aid to Israel if it is invaded.


: Re: Relations With Israel
: Kadoshim September 13, 2008, 01:15:49 PM
It is about time. Shieldelf, it looks like your patience payed off.
What do you think they mean by "positively consider?


: Re: Relations With Israel
: Shieldelf September 13, 2008, 05:15:42 PM
In my opinion, they mean that they will think about sending help. The word positively really has no added benefit.


: Re: Relations With Israel
: Kadoshim September 13, 2008, 05:52:12 PM
I guess that is okay. However I feel that number 6 should be included in the treaty, seeing how much it could help the economies of both regions.


: Re: Relations With Israel
: Shieldelf September 13, 2008, 07:02:16 PM
Very well, I will ask them about this tomorrow, as I am busy right now.


: Re: Relations With Israel
: Shieldelf October 13, 2008, 09:09:06 AM
Haven't heard from them in a while, I've given up.


: Re: Relations With Israel
: Kadoshim October 13, 2008, 12:00:31 PM
It is perfectly alright. Not all diplomatic relationships will be successful. How is your relations with Pageland going?


: Re: Relations With Israel
: Shieldelf October 13, 2008, 12:10:52 PM
Meh, most of them aren't all that active, at least my neighbors, who founded it and are the WA delegate of it.


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