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Author Topic: Formal Debate: Recreational Drugs  (Read 30392 times)
Kadoshim
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« on: November 10, 2008, 01:34:50 PM »

This was briefly mentioned in the abortion debate, and I think recreational drug use is an interesting topic for us to discuss.
What restrictions, if any, should a government put on the use of recreational drugs for its citizens? Keep in mind that there is a wide spectrum of recreational drugs, from caffeine to cocaine. Also consider the civil freedoms of citizens and the dangers that recreational drugs pose to society.
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Shieldelf
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« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2008, 05:04:11 PM »

I really shouldn't have a comment, but... true drugs considered illegal by the DEA should remain banned.
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King Chester
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« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2008, 05:28:22 PM »

WE beleive the wide range of available legal and illegal drugs makes a "one size fits all" discussion problematic.
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Kadoshim
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« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2008, 02:26:30 PM »

That is a good point. Perhaps specifying on several drugs will simplify the discussion. The drugs that we will discuss are as follows:
Caffeine
Alcohol
Tobacco
Marijuana
Cocaine
These drugs are widely known and receive ample amounts of press coverage. While I encourage you to state your position on the legality or restrictions placed on these substances, I expect that you will conclude with an umbrella philosophy broad enough to cover other drugs not mentioned.
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Shieldelf
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« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2008, 06:41:29 PM »

Caffeine- I feel that caffeine is ok, I have no problems with it.
Alcohol- I do have problems with alcohol, as it damages part of your body, and all of the DUI deaths in America and elsewhere.
Tobacco- To additive, I have problems with it. Also leads to mouth and lung cancer.
Marijuana- As I stated above, I disapprove of this kind of drug.
Cocaine[b/]- As I stated above, I disapprove of this kind of drug.
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hippish people
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« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2008, 03:36:09 PM »

I feel that all drugs should be legal. However the government has the right to prosecute citizens who operate machinery under the influence, commit crimes under the influence, and show acts of public indecency while under the influence. And the my government, at least, tries to discourage the use of drugs at all cost but I feel that drugs should not be totally banned.

Hope you guys have a good time with that one!  Smiley
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King Chester
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« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2008, 10:54:27 PM »

Queen Harmony does not have a radical view in this matter..., in terms of personal responsibility.

However, long term addiction to drugs and a person's actions while attempting to avoid experiencing withdrawl, or during withdrawl, are societal problems.  Also, those drugs which are pleasurable but routinely impare a person's ability to function create both personal and family problems, whether society turns a blind eye to over-indulgence in drugs or not.

Therefore the first question is, "Is it fair that some drugs should be controlled more than others?"
WE believe the answer is, "yes".
Caffeine is probably used in too many products, but, in general, has little mind altering effects and few (if any) long term erosive effects.  It takes effort to seriously abuse this stuff.  WE, currently, find it acceptable without restriction.
Alcohol is both a poison to the body and a sedative with long term debilitating effects on the body.  It is also known to remove good judgement.  Fortunately, recovery from occasional over-indulgence is usually only a day or similar short period of time, and usually not much fun.  WE believe that usage should be limited to adult persons and that the consequences for injurious actions while under it's influence should be harsh.
Tobacco is addictive and relatively cheap to grow.  A good cash crop for governments to tax for "health" reason.  WE believe that all adults ought to be able to choose or choose not to use tobacco.  WE are not fond of the carcinogens or emphysema, but believe that perhaps usage patterns could be altered with an educational program, which would be focused on altering public perception to the point of tobacco being used in line more with occasional celebrations rather than everyday usage.
Marijuana seems to be more addictive than tobacco and has more mind impairing properties.  Also a carcinogen.  Probably needs more restrictions that alcohol or tobacco.
Cocaine should probably be for medical use only.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2008, 10:56:21 PM by King Chester » Logged
Kadoshim
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« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2008, 08:55:17 AM »

Recreational drugs digs deep into what the government's responsibility for its citizens is. Shieldelf, Hippish People, and Chester all make good points as to what drugs should be legal and why.
I feel that all drugs should be legal. However the government has the right to prosecute citizens who operate machinery under the influence, commit crimes under the influence, and show acts of public indecency while under the influence. And the my government, at least, tries to discourage the use of drugs at all cost but I feel that drugs should not be totally banned.
I agree for the most part that citizens should be able to put what they want into their bodies.  A problem in this, as Hippish People mentioned, is the dangers to other people that arise when these drugs are used. Prosecution of these offenses is not a good deterrant because those who commit the crimes have little or no judgement abilities while under the influence of certain drugs.
Instead, the government should ban extremely mind-altering drugs, such as cocaine. Moderately mind altering drugs such as marijuana should be limited to the privacy of one's own home and for adults only. The sale of alcohol and tobacco should be regulated and limited to adults only. Caffeine products should make clear how much of the drug is present.
These laws, alongside extensive education and awareness of drug abuse, provide a balance of giving civil freedoms for adults, informing potential drug users, and protecting those who could be harmed by drug users.
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Waleran
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« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2008, 11:28:12 AM »

I don't think the question should be if a drug damage the helath or not. Just reflect on this point: who is favoured by the banning of drugs? drug traffickers, yes indeed. They tried to ban alchol in the Us and it didn't work. Just tye to legalize Marijuana and you'll see drug traffickers will get less money and maybe drugs would be less interesting to a 12 year old boy eager to do something illegal. Discourage it, but not ban, 'cause it only favours them.
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All men are created equal.
Robinho
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« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2008, 06:03:11 PM »

It should be noted that there has been a gene that has been identified (american psychological institute i think slightly drunk though so memory is hazy) as increasing susceptability to cocaine addiction. There are also indications that alcoholism is also inheritable, so does anybody propose anything to take theses factors into account? do we treat drug-users as criminals or as people suffering an illness perhaps evem a little bit of both?
Do we prosecute for the use of a drug just a couple of times or do we only persue those who follow regular patterns of drug abuse? It should be brought to your attention that the scientists who were investigating cocaine addiction believe that it is 70% down to genetic factors
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King Chester
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« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2008, 08:05:58 AM »

Do we prosecute for the use of a drug just a couple of times or do we only persue those who follow regular patterns of drug abuse?

Governments can make any number of laws against drug abuse, however, societies now refuse to shun the addicted or feel any shame in associating with them.  WE are not advocating that the addicted be ignored or no attempt should be made to rehabilitate them, but the actively addicted should not be pointed to as role models while they are in the grips of their addiction.

Movie production companies and sports franchises used to have "morals clauses" in the contracts of their stars and professional athletes, for the purpose of encouraging them to maintain (at least) the appearance of a respectable life style and keeping their businesses positively perceived by the public.  Now, it seems that neither the movie industry, the sports franchises, or even the general public are concerned about the morals of the future generations.

With this in mind, something needs to be done to instill real (and deserved) shame in the population regarding drugs.  What might work best, WE, sadly, do not know.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2008, 11:50:03 AM by King Chester » Logged
hippish people
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« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2008, 04:31:21 PM »

King Chester are you advocating stars to lie to show drugs are terrible? That is not the way to go. Lying sets an equally bad example for children and conveys the idea of perfection so sought after by teens that they perform acts of severe consequences (i.e. cutting, anorexia, bulimia, suicide). By showing the public the truth it would either expose the outward horror of substance abuse or at least illustrate to the youth that we all fall down sometimes, but the important thing is that we pick ourselves up and just keep moving.
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King Chester
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« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2008, 10:49:02 PM »

Queen Harmony,
These are difficult ideas that face society.  WE do not advocate "bearing false witness", or lying.  But is it dishonest to ask persons to jealously guard and keep their private lives to themselves? 
As for teaching ideas about perfection to children, WE believe that parents can help and teach their children that the celebrity life isn't perfect.
The info-tainment industry THRIVES on bad news about celebrities, which WE see as a bad use of the free press. 
To paraphrase Spider-Man, "With great media attention comes great responsibility."
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hippish people
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« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2008, 01:24:03 PM »

yes but if you limit freedom of press for "negative" exposure then when is it okay to limit the freedom of the press? To keep the press truly free you can not set limitations. Of course I would wish that the money from that industry would go to a better cause but Hippish People prides itself on it's free press with free as a non-exclusive term.
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King Chester
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« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2008, 08:20:48 PM »

WE did not state that the press could not pursue stories, WE simply state that there are times that WE are not enamored of the press.

Regardless, the topic is recreational drug usage.

IF, Queen Harmony, you desired to attempt to inflence the Hippish People to decrease recreational drug usage, then how might you go about it?
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hippish people
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« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2008, 04:29:40 PM »

Well, I instated a whole committee to prevent using drugs, open more rehabilitation centers, and provide counseling free for anyone. I have begun a comprehensive ad campaign and I plan to make a personal appearance in each of my nation's fine educational establishments to spread my message personally. I am a very persuasive person. Smiley

But really I feel that bringing the issue to light, not cowering in the face of it, and putting a face to the issue will have a much greater effect than sitting on a throne, or behind a desk as the case maybe, blatantly ignoring the situation. Have you never heard a fairytale where the demons were afraid, and most likely shriveled up and died, because of the light? Well, sometimes fairytales aren't so far from reality.
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